Posted on October 31, 2007
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A boy said we should give the authorities credit that things had got a lot better for young people in Iran in the past decade; what he meant was that a boy and a girl can walk down the street together without being stopped and questioned about their relationship.
Then a girl complained about parties - how there are often drugs and alcohol available and their parents worry and they themselves can’t have fun because they think they could be arrested at any moment.
A boy behind her jumped in and asked: “Why do we define fun in terms of parties - you can go mountain climbing.”
Indeed a girl said she plays tennis and goes to the cinema to see Iranian films that reflect accurately the social problems of young Iranians.
Fun is clearly a big issue here. Another student complained that to have fun in Iran you had to have money and time.
War
We talked about the Iraq war and it brought up very strong statements from all of the students about how they are against war and how Iran is a peaceful country.
One boy said everyone in the class had been affected by the eight-year Iran-Iraq war. A girl explained how she had lived in Khuzestan near the Iraqi border and how she remembered her cousin dying at the front and what an awful day that was.
Everyone said that for them war was tangible and real - and that is why they were so against it.
Then it developed into a discussion about whose war is right. “What’s the difference between a suicide bomber and a stealth bomber,” said one boy who blamed the media for giving a false impression of Iran. Questions the students want to put to the schools in the US and the UK.
The Islamic Azad University has 300 branches across Iran
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The issue of marriage and dating was lively - with a lot of discussion about whether men and women are really equal in Iran.
One boy quoted George Orwell, saying: “Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.”
A girl complained that in the workplace women are not paid the same as men - if the men have a family to support they get more money for the same job.
But the students were also keen to point out how much things had changed for this generation of women in Iran and they thought people abroad would be surprised to know there are more girls in their university classes than boys.
They think most foreigners assume young Iranian women just stay at home and have children.
One girl pointed out that education is segregated until university level so the first time they really meet the opposite sex is only at university.
All said they would never dream of an arranged marriage but many said they thought semi-arranged marriages where couples are introduced to each other were not a bad idea.
I am not sure how the students will react when a camera is pointed in their faces but in the preliminary meeting I sometimes had a hard time getting them to speak one at a time: they were so enthusiastic and argumentative and had so much to contribute.
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Posted on October 30, 2007
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A painting by Renaissance artist Raphael has sold for more than 18m ($37.3m) at an auction in London.
The portrait, of Florentine ruler Lorenzo de’ Medici, had not been seen in public since 1968.
When it was last sold, the art world was divided over its origins and it sold for just $325.
But experts now agree it is genuine - Christie’s auctioneers describing it as the most important Renaissance portrait to be sold at auction for a generation.
‘Blind date’
The portrait was commissioned by Pope Leo X after he arranged a marriage between his nephew, Lorenzo de’ Medici, and Madeleine de la Tour d’Auvergne, a cousin of Francois I, King of France.
The couple had never met, and so Raphael’s paintings were to serve as an introduction - in a Renaissance version of the blind date.
In his portrait, Lorenzo is seen dressed in a gold tunic and fur-lined cape, resplendent against a rich green background.
The Pope’s introduction seems to have worked - the couple married in 1518 and had a daughter, Catherine de’ Medici, who went on to marry King Henry II of France.
Record broken
Raphael started out as a competent master of provincial church decoration and became one of the greatest painters of his era.
The sale has broken the record for a price paid for a work by Raphael.
The previous highest price was 5.3m in 1996 for Study for the Head and Hand of an Apostle, a drawing in black crayon.
Richard Knight, international director of Christie’s Old Master Department, said: “The importance of the artist and the sitter, together with the provenance and the historical context behind this painting’s creation, make it one of the most significant old master pictures to be offered at auction for a generation.”
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Posted on October 29, 2007
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Lawyers for a man accused of a murder 27 years ago have been allowed more time to prepare their case.
Vincent Simpson, 60, faces a charge of strangling Elizabeth McCabe whose body was found in Templeton Woods, Dundee, in 1980.
Mr Simpson, of Camberley, Surrey, was excused attendance from a hearing at the High Court in Edinburgh.
His defence team said they were still examining documents from the huge police investigation.
The legal team said they were also consulting experts about evidence likely to be led during the trial.
Other charges
A further hearing before judge Lady Dorrian is expected in July when it is hoped that a trial date will be fixed.
The charge against Mr Simpson alleges that in February 1980 in Dundee’s Union Street, the woods and elsewhere in the city, he assaulted Ms McCabe, hit her on the head and compressed her neck, murdering her.
Mr Simpson faces two other charges of breach of the peace, alleging that he approached women in Dundee at about the same time, causing them distress and alarm.
Ms McCabe was last seen at a disco in the city and was murdered just before her 21st birthday.
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Posted on October 28, 2007
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JK Rowling is one of the best-selling authors ever, having broken records for sales around the world.
Her Harry Potter books have spellbound kids and adults everywhere.
What was your favourite book when you were a child?
It changed weekly, because I read at least a book a week!
How old were you when you knew you wanted to be a writer?
I usually date the ambition from the age of six, at which I wrote my first complete ‘book’ (about a rabbit called Rabbit), but I know that I wanted to be an author before then. In fact, I couldn’t really understand why anybody would want to do anything different.
Any tips for kids who want to get started as an aspiring author?
The best way to learn about style, characterisation and plot construction is to read as much as you possibly can.
You will probably find that you start to imitate your favourite authors, but this is a good learning process and your own style will come eventually. Always plan your work; writing aimlessly sometimes throws up a good idea or two, but it is no way to produce a whole story.
Write what you know: your own interests, feelings, beliefs, friends, family and even pets will be your raw materials when you start writing. Develop a fondness for solitude if you can, because writing is one of the loneliest professions in the world!
And finally: perseverance is absolutely essential, not just to produce all those words, but to survive rejection and criticism. However, the utter joy of seeing a book you wrote sitting in a bookshelf is a prize worth striving for!
What makes books so special?
The power of the printed word unites the author’s and the reader’s imaginations to create a unique vision. Entire worlds can be carried around inside these small, cheap, paper objects that don’t need plugs, modems or speakers. Books have survived for centuries; cinema is an upstart by comparison!
How do you get your inspiration for your writing?
The ideas just come; I don’t really need much external inspiration. Just give me a quietish half hour, and perhaps a nice cup of tea, and I’ll probably be able to dash off a paragraph or two.
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Posted on October 27, 2007
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Last week the Magazine published an article on newlyweds “meshing” their surnames in an effort to banish the “sexist” tradition of a woman taking her husband’s name. But a few men go further, by taking their wife’s name, says Julian Vicari (formerly Smith), 36, in our Readers’ Column.
I proposed to my girlfriend on 8 August 2004 at her best friend’s house. We had been going out for just over a year and a half. We then began the long task of planning the wedding. The venue was booked and a date was set in June 2006.
The subject of the surname had cropped up before and we jokingly dismissed whether we would become Mr and Mrs Smith. What usually happened was one of us would bring the subject up, we would discuss it, then decide it was too much of a headache to think about and push it back down the list of things to plan.
You see my wife’s maiden name has Italian origins, whereas my surname is Smith. I think you can see straight away where we had a little dilemma. Look in any local telephone directory and there are pages and pages of Smiths, so it is not as though the name will die out.
Trouble
As the wedding got nearer we thought maybe we could just use double-barrelled surnames. We both agreed we would leave it to our honeymoon and discuss it on a sun-drenched beach.
I had always been adamant that I did not want my wife to keep her maiden name. I wanted us to be ‘Mr and Mrs something’. She agreed.
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In the end the love for my wife was the deciding factor
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I also knew how much trouble she had giving her name over the phone when booking something. They always ask her to spell it, so having a double-barrelled surname would cause even more confusion.
Also, it would mean both of us having to change bank details, etc. Although it is worth saying that my wife had no problem with being known as Mrs Smith.
The decision to change my surname was solely my undertaking. The main reason I considered changing my surname to my wife’s was to do with the fact that I love my wife more than anything in the world, I saw this gesture of taking on her surname as a show of my love for her and would carry on her family name as my father-in-law has two daughters. Also, I quite liked the idea of breaking the normal tradition, doing something almost unique.
My in-laws only found out I was changing it last week. Mainly because right up to, and after, receiving the deed poll I was still unsure whether I wanted to change my surname. In the end I just thought ‘why not’, my reasons are very good. Although it has been strange - almost as though I am turning into a different person.
Different person
I used a reputable company to get my name changed by Deed Poll and they supplied me with a very long list of companies and government contacts who I had to notify about the change of surname. I had the Deed Poll witnessed on 29 July 2006 so, from that date, I was no longer Julian Smith.
I had totally forgotten about practising my signature, so I had to have a quick go before I signed the Deed Poll. Now I am currently going through the long list.
It may sound quite simple to change your surname but if you look into it there is a lot to consider and it is not something you should take lightly. I thought about it for a long time, but in the end the love for my wife was the deciding factor.
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I think that it is a lovely gesture! As long as one of the surnames is being used - woman are also part of the “family tree”!
Erma Steyl, Mafikeng, South Africa
Funnily enough, my fiance spoke to my parents only yesterday for their permission to take my name when we marry. I am the only child and have no cousins to carry on our name, not that it’s a particularly rare name, but it is still less widespread than Smith.
As Julian said, it isn’t something that my partner has taken lightly and it has been purely his decision. In our case, because I had always intended to keep my name, one of our major considerations was that we would like our children to carry the same name as the two of us.
I imagine as time goes by, this will become a more popular option and couples won’t get the slightly bewildered reaction that we have received.
On a practical note, I shall pass on Julian’s tip about practising signatures - I’m sure it has not yet crossed his mind.
ALS, Warwickshire, UK
I think it is a good idea to take the least common of the two (maiden) names; (although the logic of that in theory would be that all surnames became just as common as each other).
What I don’t understand is why Mr. Vicari needed to change his name by deed poll - when a woman who marries takes her husband’s surname, she just adopts it. What is the legal position here?
PJ, W. Yorks, UK
Did Julian’s father give him away at the wedding then? The reason I ask is because this part of the ceremony is where the bride’s father gives her away not only to the husband’s protection but also that of the new family who’s name she is to adopt!
Matt
I see no issues at all with the husband taking the wife’s surname. I can quite understand why Julian decided to change.
My maiden name also used to be Smith, and without wishing to offend my family, couldn’t wait to change it! The sad thing is I have no siblings so nobody will carry the family name on, so maybe I should have kept my old surname after all!
Caroline Ley, London
Quite a good idea (don’t Smiths have a lot of trouble with identity theft?). The other problem with the surname Smith is that sometimes people don’t believe you especially the “John Smith-yes-that-really-is-my-name, from the Home Office.
I did read about a young man who got a lot of hassle from the police because his name was William Shakespeare (not sure if he lived in Stratford but I think the story was in the Evesham Journal)
Possibly the Vicaris have been here before as there are a lot of Vickerys in this area.
David Benyon, Bude
You don’t need to go to the hassle and expense of a deed poll. I took my wife’s surname (alongside mine) 11 years ago after we got married, and whenever anyone mentioned deed polls because of my new surname, I just asked them to do exactly what they would do if I were a woman taking her husband’s surname. I have had no problems at all with any institution, including DVLA, passport office, Inland Revenue, bank etc.
Toby, Bristol
It is interesting that in these days of “gender equality” the man must jump through many more hoops to change his name after marriage. Good luck to Julian.
Cameron Smith, Bath, UK
What a lovely story. I took my husband’s surname when we married and I’m glad I don’t have to spell it out anymore. But ladies please note - no-one gives you that list of contacts you need when you marry - it took me until last month to get the last one changed. (I’ve been married 8 years).
Caroline Brown, Rochester, UK
In Japan, if the bride has no brothers to carry on the family line - the groom can take the bride’s surname to preserve the bride’s family name.
Eamon, Shinjo City, Japan>
At secondary school, we learnt our English teacher’s husband had a secret. According to him, in the many years his wife had been teaching he had gotten used to being called Mr Taylor (her surname). One day he went ahead and made it official as a loving gesture to his wife and her career. The story left an indelible impression on our class. I don’t think any of us had even considered the possibility of a man taking his wife’s name.
As to having just one surname, I come from an Muslim culture where there may be as many as three surnames in one family: both the wife and husband keep their surname whilst the children have their father’s first name as their last name. Not only that, one branch of my family are matrilineal and adopt the matriach’s clan name. Keeping track of relatives consists of a very complicated family tree! To keep matters simple I have proposed to have all the daughters in the family use the mother’s last name, while the sons use the father’s. That way it supports both the matrilineal and patrilineal traditions in our family.
Khairiah, Los Angeles, California
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Posted on October 26, 2007
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Radio Five Live football commentator Ali Bruce-Ball combined his love of sport and drama at school to land his dream job.
Find out how he did it and share some of his top reporting tips.
I always loved playing sport and watching sport but I never thought I could turn this passion into a career. At school I did a lot of theatre, in fact, I was a bit of a show off. My love of speaking to an audience and sport came together in this fantastic job.
I trained as a news journalist. When I started I didn’t have much knowledge of current affairs and all I really wanted to do was do sport reporting. But it was really worth doing a news journalism course as it gave me all the basic skills I use today. If I’d done a course purely on sports journalism, I think I might have fallen out of love with sport.
I commentate on both TV and radio but what I really love about radio is the immediacy - saying what I think as it occurs. I get nervous every single time I am on air, but it all adds to the excitement.
What happens if I run out of things to say? It happens all the time. This is why it’s really useful to have another commentator sitting next to me. That way I can hand over to them.
If you are on your own, the key skill is to describe what is in front of you. If you think of yourself as eyes of the listener, hopefully you won’t run out of words during the game.
When you are commentating, it doesn’t sound very good if you keep repeating the same word. This can be a problem in sport as there are only so many different moves. Take football for example. You don’t want your commentary to be “pass, pass, shot at goal, save, pass, pass.”
One tip I learned from another journalist is to write down a list of different ways of describing the moves and cross them off as you use them, to avoid repetition.
Here are is my list, why not see if you can add to it:
Pass
- Stoke
- Curl
- Float
- Skim
- Nudge
- Glance
- Flick
Shot at goal
- Fizz
- Smash
- Rocket
- Thunder
- Stab
- Bullet
- Power
- Thump
Another good tip is to turn the volume down on the TV while you are watching a game and record yourself commentating into a tape recorder. Then play it back.
At first it might feel weird listening to your own voice but it’s really useful. And keep the tapes! You never know who may want to listen to your commentary! Also, it’s always good to listen to them at a later date to see how much you have improved.”
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Posted on October 24, 2007
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Dirty War takes these warnings seriously and legitimately examines just how
prepared our emergency services would be in the event of the detonation of a
radiological bomb outside Liverpool Street station in London.
The storyline involves the importation to the UK of ingredients for such
a bomb from Istanbul.
Public perception
The programme makers must have known that they were entering controversial
territory.
Many British Muslims are quite understandably deeply unhappy with the way
they have often been portrayed in the media.
They feel some statements in newspapers are clearly designed to be inciteful and to encourage a hatred of Muslims.
Certainly, the drip-drip effect of the high profile anti-terror raids have
served to convince many Britons that there are indeed numerous cells of
“Muslim” terrorists on the loose in this country.
The facts are that since 9/11, 609 people have been arrested under the anti-terror legislation - of whom only 15 have been convicted to date - and most of these were actually non-Muslims.
Balance
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Islam is categorically not about destruction and the killing of innocents
Muslim police officer in Dirty War
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The programme makers had clearly tried to balance out the portrayal of
suicidal terrorists with more positive Muslim characters.
In one scene, an elderly Muslim lady tips off the police after becoming rightly suspicious about the behaviour of her newly-arrived neighbours who she sees unloading barrels from a van in the middle of the night.
The lead policewoman is a young, hardworking, multilingual Muslim who gives a
firm riposte to the arguments of a terrorist during interrogation.
“Islam is categorically not about destruction and the killing of innocents,” she
retorts.
Public alert
The portrayal of the aftermath of the bomb’s detonation is revealing.
The scepticism of members of the emergency services expressed earlier to a
government minister about the availability of suitable equipment and their
level of training, is quickly proved to be well-founded.
There is ensuing confusion and increasing agitation among the public, who are
confined by the police to cordoned-off areas in order to be decontaminated.
Several are shown to be drinking water unaware that they could be
contaminating themselves even further.
The viewer is made aware that we should also refrain from touching our eyes or mouth in the immediate aftermath of a radiological attack.
Language of terrorism
A major weakness was the lack of identifiable Muslims among the victims of
the terrorist attack.
Muslims are not seen in the crowd
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We are informed at the end of the drama that 206 people died as a result of the bomb’s detonation in a city whose population is 9% Muslim (700,000 Muslims live in London according to the 2001 Census).
It was important to have pointed out that the innocent victims of a major
terrorist strike - which by its nature is indiscriminate in who it kills
and injures - in London would almost certainly include Muslims.
The reference in the drama to “Islamist terrorists” was also objectionable
and unhelpful.
It would have been far better to have simply described them as al-Qaeda inspired terrorists.
At a time when ordinary Muslims are struggling to disassociate themselves and their faith from the actions of terrorists, it is unlikely many viewers will have appreciated the distinction made in the drama between “Islamic” and “Islamist”.
The frequency with which the word “Islam” is used with “terrorism” creates an
association which is risible to Muslims.
Overall though, Dirty War, tackled an important area in an informative and
absorbing style.
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Posted on October 23, 2007
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Jason Gillespie has been recalled by Australia after a seven-month gap for two Tests in Bangladesh this month.
Fast bowler Gillespie was discarded following a disappointing performance in last summer’s Ashes series when he took three wickets in three Tests.
But injuries to Shaun Tait, Michael Kasprowicz and Justin Langer have forced the selectors to make changes to the squad named for Bangladesh.
Also drafted in are paceman Mitchell Johnson and batsman Phil Jaques.
The two-Test series begins at Fatullah on Sunday, to be followed by one-day internationals.
“Our advice was that the players (Tait, Kasprowicz and Langer) would be definitely unavailable for the first Test, and maybe the second too.
“Given that it’s only a two-Test series, we thought it would be in the best interests of the players concerned to give them a full recovery,” said chief selector Trevor Hohns.
“The three players coming into the squad have performed very well in domestic cricket and deserve their opportunity to tour.”
Gillespie, 30, took 40 first-class wickets for South Australia during the recent domestic season at a cost of only 21.27 runs each.
His inclusion in the squad means he will not be able to take up a contract with English county side Yorkshire until mid-May.
Opening batsman Jaques and left-arm fast bowler Johnson are in a similar position, having agreed terms with Worcestershire and Essex for the summer.
Jaques played one Test against South Africa last December but may have to fight for another opportunity as Australia also have the option of promoting Mike Hussey to open in Langer’s place and drafting Michael Clarke into the middle order.
Johnson, meanwhile, had already been chosen for the one-day series in Bangladesh but now has a chance of making his first Test appearance after returning match figures of 10-106 to help Queensland beat Victoria in the Pura Cup final.
Australia Test squad: R Ponting (capt), A Gilchrist (vice-capt), S Clark, M Clarke, J Gillespie, M Hayden, M Hussey, P Jaques, M Johnson, B Lee, S MacGill, D Martyn, A Symonds, S Warne.
Australia one-day squad: R Ponting (capt), A Gilchrist (vice-capt), N Bracken, S Clark, M Clarke, D Cullen, B Hogg, M Hussey, M Johnson, S Katich, B Lee, D Martyn, S Watson, A Symonds.
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Posted on October 22, 2007
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About 5,000 MG Rover workers are searching for new jobs after receiving redundancy notices in the post on Monday.
Companies that supply MG Rover have been given grants of around 300,000 to help stave off further job losses.
Tony Blair said that 150m of government aid was being made available in the wake of Rover’s demise.
Conservative leader Michael Howard welcomed the support package while Charles Kennedy, leader of the Liberal Democrats, said the government should have acted sooner.
Meanwhile sources close to Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) have told the BBC that the company is set to build Rover cars in China.
What impact will the collapse of Rover have on the West Midlands? Should government support have come sooner? If you have been involved has it changed your vote? What would you like to see happen?
This debate is now closed. Read a selection of your comments below.
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The following comments reflect the balance of opinion we have received so far:
Rover died a long time ago when it was taken apart and its profitable components sold to BMW and Ford. What was left was a company producing poor quality, out of date vehicles that no-one wanted to buy. It is easy to try to blame government for the collapse but the true blame lies in the usual case of zero investment and reliance on someone always coming to the rescue at the last minute. When British companies realise that making the same old product range is not the way to keep a satisfied customer base, then we may just regain our place in the world as a manufacturing nation.
Gordon Tate, Redcar, Cleveland
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Instead of waiting for a handout, get out there and start looking
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I’m afraid this is life. Cheaper wages elsewhere in the world mean redundancy here. I was made redundant last year after 28 years + 270 of my friends. All I got was the basic package. It annoys me to hear people at Rover saying the payout is not enough. Well that’s life, wake up to the real world. I have a disabled wife and 3 young children and I now have a job 32 miles away. It means leaving home at 6.30 am and getting back home at 7.00pm. I don’t like it but it’s a job. So instead of waiting for a handout, get out there and start looking.
Philip, Surrey
Cars have become a commodity, and the car industry globally is in trouble. Rover won’t be the last car company making thousands redundant. Just wait until oil starts getting really expensive!
Anthony Cartmell, Lancing, UK
That a so-called Labour government allows the last British-owned volume car maker to go bust is clear illustration that any pretensions of being a socialist party are well and truly gone. Only in Britain would this happen. In France their government has bailed-out numerous privately owned companies against EU rules. Why couldn’t we?
Andy Roberts, Newquay, Cornwall
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We were not given special treatment
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Why should Rover workers get special support from the government. I have been through a few large scale redundancies within the rail industry, we were not given special treatment.
Robin Norman, Oxon
This is nothing more than a political stunt! I have seen many friends and family go down that path but not-one has received that much money. My sympathy goes out to these workers. But let’s face it if it wasn’t for the elections they wouldn’t stand a chance.
Rob, Hartlepool, England
Rover is simply a company that cannot make ends meet - just like many others. If my company was insolvent I would not expect the government to bail me out, nor should Rover. Make what the customers want at a realistic price or get out.
Christopher Sutton, Fort William, Scotland
I watch with sadness the continuing demise of British industry. To a lesser extent it is happening here in Australia. I hope there is are repercussions to the government, since they set the agenda that governs how and where investments are made, and subsequently how industry flourishes.
Paul Harrison, Perth, Australia
Being an expat automotive engineer in the USA, I feel nothing but sadness to see another UK manufacturing company fail. We know global competition is making it difficult for all companies. A week never seems to go by without any Detroit press reports discussing supplier and car manufacturer cost cutting, increasing steel prices, layoffs, and intensifying Far East competition. At the end Rover was too small and too impoverished to truly survive these conditions unless a strategic partner could be found. But despite all this, I cannot help but think that successive UK government “laissez faire” attitudes to manufacturing is wrong and a more proactive position should be taken. What is being done to develop high-tech manufacturing jobs? Let’s hope that Longbridge is not replaced with a supermarket!
David Humphreys, Metro Detroit, USA
I find it laughable that the politicians talk about giving businesses freedom and reducing red tape. But when a high profile business fails they criticise each other for not intervening. Government is there to manage the public sector and the economy, its role is not to micro-manage every employer in the country. Businesses fail, it’s a fact of life. The Phoenix consortium had 450M to invest in a new model but wasted that chance.
Giles Jones, Staffs, UK
I cannot believe how our life has been turned upside down. I took an apprenticeship with Rover under BMW in 1990. Then had to be moved to a contract house five years ago to finish the Mini off when BMW walked away. I returned to MG Rover with the hope of developing a new car, and now I’m left with three years service out of 15 years commitment, giving me around 700 redundancy. Add to that two loan cars that could potentially amount to a debt of 20,000 and my wedding in 5 weeks, things can’t get much worse.
Mark Osborne, Bromsgrove
I have been made redundant four times. No one from the government came to my aid with a compensation package. Rover workers need to realise times have changed. It is totally unfair to everyone else who has lost jobs if they get taxpayers’ money. Perhaps if they had been a bit more flexible and not so preoccupied with militant unions the place would still be open.
Philip Johnson, Telford, England
As a Ford worker I can sympathise with the Rover workforce. Ford stopped car production at Dagenham a couple of years ago and within another several years you will see what is left here close as well.
B Benney, Essex
I don’t think any amount of money would help MG Rover without a new and inspiring model range that could dispel the legacy of BL and Austin Rover. Appalling cars such as the Allegro, Marina, Princess and Metro have left a lasting impression. It’s a shame they are capable of producing a car as good as the 75 and still can’t turn their fortunes around.
John, Manchester
The decline and fall of Rover has been going on for decades. The good bits have been cherry picked by Ford and BMW. What’s left is a plant making cars based on an obsolete Honda and the Rover 75. The best bet would be to sell off MG to the highest bidder and admit defeat.
Roger, Stockport, Cheshire
The biggest mistake Rover and its parent company made was to ditch an excellent partnership with Honda and align with BMW. Honda helped to turn Rover round in a big way. Once BMW bought Rover, the rot started to set in.
John Darcy, London
What happened to Rover is symptomatic to what is happening to the British Manufacturing industry. The root of the problem is very simple: we don’t get good students to study manufacturing at university. The university departments have either been scaled down or disappeared in the past five years. All we are doing is training Chinese and Indian students in advanced manufacturing technology, so they will continue to enjoy the surge in their manufacturing.
Amy Wan, Liverpool
Rover has an “old man” image that has been impossible to shake off for decades. How about the government buying the company in order to develop eco-friendly hybrids for a greener future?
Gerry Noble, Salisbury, UK
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Why are Labour and Tony Blair being blamed for Rover’s failure in the open market?
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Why are Labour and Tony Blair being blamed for Rover’s failure in the open market? Are they the ones running Rover? Are they the directors and managers? Are they the ones making the cars? No. They have nothing to do with it.
Bossman, UK
The only reason MG Rover workers are out of jobs is because the quality of the vehicles were such that nobody wanted them. Also the Phoenix Four plundered the company. Finally, as far as buying British as one of your contributors has suggested, people will buy cars on the basis of reliability and not on nationality. If hat means German and Spanish cars on the roads then so be it.
Alex, Leeds, UK
Do not blame the politicians this time. Blame yourselves. I drive a British made (Land) Rover. What’s the make of your car?
Patrick, Broadstairs
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This is yet another wake up call for UK plc
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This is yet another wake up call for UK plc. If the product you manufacture is not providing value for money, someone else will do it instead. Alchemy Partners, who put forward proposals to save Rover the last time it was in trouble, but were cynically shunned by this government, must feel vindicated. Why should Rover employees get any additional help? There must be an election around the corner! This government recently decimated a profitable industry, hunting, out of pure prejudice and offered no help whatsoever.
Pete, North Yorkshire
I have owned three Rovers and had a further two as company vehicles. The quality of their cars went downhill as soon as their relationship with Honda ended. When BAE wanted out, Honda was Rover’s natural partner - from the moment BMW took over they were doomed, and when BMW offloaded them it was only a matter of time. Much as I feel for the workers and their families, MG Rover is a private company. The taxpayer should not pick up the tab for improved redundancy packages for the workers.
David Cooper, Hull
I feel very sorry for all the Rover workers and their families, but this is a private company. My firm made redundancies a few years ago. We’re a very small company and only statutory redundancy was paid. That’s life in the private sector. I don’t understand why people are blaming the government.
Claire, Aberdeen
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You can not keep a company going just to provide employment
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Whilst it is very sad that these people have lost their jobs, you can not keep a company going just to provide employment.
Andy Wilson, Hove
I’m surprised they lasted this long. They had a very bad reputation in America and withdrew along with the Yugo, Fiat and Peugeot. Peugeot owners tell me that it was a dealer/parts problem. But the Yugos, MGs and Rovers were assembled poorly from poor designs. You just can’t sell poor cars in a harshly competitive marketplace.
Peter, La Marque, Texas
I do feel sorry for the people of Longbridge, and all that rely on the plant for its work. However, it should have happened years ago. When others are made redundant, they accept it and move on. Why should the car workers be any different?
A Buchanan, West Midlands
I read the story of the collapse at MG Rover with great sadness. A great tradition is now gone. Morris Garages and the Rover Car company, two of the most famous names in British motoring history now confined to the history books. Some will make money out of this collapse, but it is never the man on the production line.
Richard Westwell, Hua Hin, Thailand
Thousands of people will be losing their jobs and Britain will be losing an iconic symbol, I really wonder what is happening to this country, it is a sad end to a car manufacturer over a hundred years old.
Andrew, Cheshire
Directors should be held more responsible for Rover’s demise and must account for the large dividend payments taken from the company for the mysterious decline in pension fund assets. The former directors of Equitable Life and their auditors are currently in court. So should the directors of Rover be.
Jon, Ascot, Berkshire
For the government to provide any more money for Rover would be throwing good money after bad. How can a company losing 25m a week ever hope to stay in business?
Philip, London
Now that the government have ordered an enquiry into Rover, it effectively puts the whole fiasco off limits until well after the election. Nice move Tony. It remains to be seen if the Birmingham voters will swallow it.
Gerry Noble, Salisbury, UK
Why should it be politically damaging? The managers should be asked to offer their salaries of the last two years and their pensions to the workers. Mismanagement in a private company can’t be blamed on politicians, can it?
Yolker, High Wycombe, England
It’s not just the 5,000 or so at Longbridge, thats bad enough but don’t forget there is the wider effect on the franchise dealer staff countrywide. A dealership with no franchise is on rocky ground.
Stephen Wilkinson, Middlesbrough, England
Of course this is a political issue because the government tries to meddle with most aspects of our lives. The question is why did it not touch Rover in the same way? The answer is that with Rover, it was up against some real issues which could not be solved by setting targets or imposing its own views!
Vic, UK
It is a disgrace that the government presumes to spend 150m of our money to buy votes before an election. Companies go bust, that’s life. We already have a welfare state to provide support for people between jobs, why are these people getting extra subsidy? Utterly contemptible behaviour.
David Johnson, Belfast, UK
If the British taxpayer is going to be forced to subsidise MG Rover, the very least the government can do is buy those cars exclusively for government use and stop buying Jaguars, Rolls Royces and other expensive automobiles instead. At least the British taxpayer will get something of value for his money. If the bureaucrats and politicians don’t like it, maybe they’ll think twice before they spend taxpayer money on a politically motivated bailout next time.
Mark, USA
We live in a capitalist economic system. This is the choice the British people make in election after election; therefore we have to face the reality of a competitive economy in which all business is governed by market laws not employment or welfare ideals. If people really care about the loss of Rover jobs they should consider the benefits of state-operated manufacturing, not whine in a nationalistic way about a run-of-the-mill car manufacturer.
Kyle Duncan, Cambridge, UK
The Labour Government have made the right decision to offer funding to help supplement redundancy payouts and retraining of those redundant. To keep a company that had a poor product and even poorer management structure would be a criminal waste of taxpayers money. If there was a viable way of saving the company and making it profitable their would have been a queue of companies waiting to take them over.
R King, UK
One word describes the failure of British industries including Rover - unions!
Dave, New Jersey
To all those who think that it is the government’s job to save Rover: What car do you drive? We should all buy British, or stop complaining.
Lucy Bird, Southampton, Hants
I have a close friend who just lost his job at Rover after 23 years. He’s in total shock - he’s 40 and hasn’t got a clue what to do next - he’s been working since the age of 17 and has never set foot in a dole office.
Kashif May, Birmingham, UK
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It is within the government’s power to take over the company itself
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Tony Blair states on BBC Radio 2 today that he will do everything within his power to help MG Rover employees, but he insists that the UK government cannot keep the company afloat. Why not? He has the power to do so, and without MG Rover our car manufacturing industry is gone. It is within the government’s power to take over the company itself. That would be good for the people of Birmingham and the UK. Why should political ideology get in the way of saving a UK industry?
Mike Dailly, Glasgow
When the steelworks closed in Cardiff hundreds of workers lost their jobs and pensions. My husband’s job was as important to our family, as Rover workers’ jobs are to their families. There was no government help for us, why should our taxes now be used to support Rover?
Carolyn John, Cardiff
How many of the now ex employees who are moaning about the loss of jobs are members of the unions who have, on so many occasions over the last 25 years, held this company to ransom for more pay and benefits? It is not only the latest management who have milked this company. Moreover, if you were offered a chance to become excessively wealthy off an investment of 60k wouldn’t you take it?
Matt, Solihull
This is a very sad day for the local area. Rover is integral to Longbridge - a huge raft of local businesses which rely on Rover workers for business, such as simple firms like newsagents, will probably go under now. The effect on the local community cannot be underestimated. I sincerely hope the government will help the local area. What we do not need is a huge supermarket built on the site.
Manjit Mand, Rednal, Birmingham
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If necessary, Rover should be re-nationalised
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As a trade unionist I firmly believe the government should step in now and save these jobs. The company bosses may not deserve help but the workers and their families and communities do. If necessary, Rover should be re-nationalised. Don’t let the government tell us it can’t be afforded, they found the money for war quick enough!
Ben Drake, York
A sad end for the workers, but shameful comments by the government that “it has done everything it can” are far from the mark. The whole of UK manufacturing is suffering from a policy of slavishly following Euro policies that have made UK manufacturing progressively uncompetitive.
James, Marlow, Bucks
What’s wrong with British governments? Can you imagine the Germans letting BMW go under or the French Renault? In the past our government has helped Honda, Toyota & Nissan set up in the UK, but let our own underfunded industries go to the dogs.
B Jarrald, Bolton
We all live and work in a global economy and no one can expect to have a job for life. Rover and the car industry in general is no different to those who have gone before like the ship builders, miners, steel workers, printers and carpet makers, to name but a few. It’s sad but these are the economic facts of life.
Andy, Bromsgrove
I work in construction and was made redundant four times in the recession of the 90’s and take poorly paid jobs to survive. There was no rescue package for me. I’m against tax- payers money being used to bail out a private company. The workers should pick themselves up of the floor, stop whinging and move on like what I and many of my colleagues had to.
Martin, Birmingham, England
What is the big fuss with Rover collapsing? It is just like any other normal businesses. If you are cursing and swearing at Phoenix Four for not having done much, what about yourself? As an employee, you should have seen it coming if you are really involved in your work. Isn’t it obvious that your “work” is less than before? Is there something wrong with the company? Look around, what cars are the Oxbridge yuppies driving? BMW, Mercs and Audis! Rover does not even qualify. Is this British or Un-British since we have the Aussies call themselves Australian if they buy a Subaru and not a BMW?
Jonathan Sternberg, London
The Labour government has shown no regard for manufacturing industry throughout its tenure. Manufacturing jobs are down 50% since they came into power less than 10 years ago. As long as “other” low paid jobs are available to replace skilled workers, and therefore no state benefits are paid out, then they smugly ignore the social catastrophe for 100s of thousands of UK citizens and their families. This has been a government for non-working classes as opposed to working classes.
Ann Smith, Manchester
Simple fact is that Rover cars were not as good as other cars on the market. Painting them yellow and “re-badging” them MG really wasn’t going to solve the problem. It carried on doing what it thought was best not what other manufacturers were doing and now they have paid.
Nick, Telford
I run a small bakery firm employing 60 people and over the past 20 years have had to compete with the supermarkets and large multiples. I was upset to read that Rovers VAT liability was deferred and they did not have to pay over employers national insurance contributions. What is so special about them, why do us small companies have to suffer when a large company can do things we would be in court for if we did?
Vince, Kent
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MG Rover should have produced better cars
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The onus was not on us to buy Rover cars simply because they are British. MG Rover should have produced better cars. The public should not be accused in this way.
Lin, Norwich
So Rover is finally dead, and the press will have to find another company to undermine confidence in and finally destroy. Hope you are pleased with your recent success.
Chris, Warks
Why don’t the Labour Party keep their sticky fingers out of this mess? Without the help of the Labour party and the taxpayers’ money Rover would have gone out of existence in the 70s when they were British Leyland. How much more money do they want to give this company and its workers? What about the other thousands of workers who lose their jobs every year due to insolvencies? What help do they get?
Dave P, Basildon
Hundreds of uncompetitive companies close every month in this country. I myself have been made redundant twice. Why does everyone expect the government to intervene simply because this company makes cars?
Chris J, London, England
My dad has worked at Longbridge now for 31 years, and the disgraceful redundancy money of 280 for every year they’ve been employed by the company is sickening. Ford Dagenham plant workers were offered a much better redundancy package when they were laid off. The government needs to intervene and safeguard the livelihoods of Rover employees’ families and their mortgages.
Chris Round, Kings Norton, Birmingham
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How sad for Rover. However this has happened on the day Royal Doulton closed its gates for the last time
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How sad for Rover. However this has happened on the day Royal Doulton closed its gates for the last time. In its day it employed far more than 6,000 and nobody has batted an eyelid. My husband was made redundant after 41 years service when his company went into administration. He got just legal amount of redundancy which was 270 for only 20 weeks which is half of what Rover employees are getting. This country is one of the richest in the world but we are treated appallingly.
Linda, Stoke-on-Trent
12,000 manufacturing jobs lost a month since 1997. What makes Rovers 5,000 employees so special?
Doug Hall, Bury St Edmunds, United Kingdom
Rover never had any hope of making a success of itself. BMW not only stripped Rover of Mini and Land Rover, but then ruthlessly ensured that Rover were not allowed to build cars in a similar vein, or sell in historically strong markets, such as Japan and Australasia. The government claims to have seen a credible business plan when the Phoenix Four came to the rescue. Is this true, or did they just hope Rover wouldn’t run out of cash? Yet again questions should be asked about the integrity of Messrs Blair and Byers!
David, Weston Super Mare, Somerset
So sad to see MG Rover going down the drain and with it all their nice and beautiful cars. I guess the market for old timers is simply too small?
Hans, Germany, Berlin
There seem to be a lot of comments on here suggesting that it is the general public’s fault because we did not buy British. My response is this - if a foreign company offers a better car at a cheaper price, then why should I buy the inferior product? Yes it is sad that many have lost their jobs, but Rover simply were not competitive in a cut-throat market.
Chris Hodgson, Birkenhead
It is the fault of the management. If the cars were not selling they should have changed the strategy. There should be a public inquiry, not to blame and punish but to learn from the lesson. Key: invest in research and development.
Tharma, Surrey
The Rover workers have at least one consolation - there is a Labour Government in power. Under the Tories, Rover would have got no government help now and would probably have disappeared years ago.
Ken, Hockley Essex
Michael Howard and the Tories are against “the nanny state”. But, when the Phoenix fell to earth, Howard said the government should have prevented the collapse of MG Rover. Whatever happened to smaller government? Whatever happened to anything but soundbites?
Peter Holmes, London
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Britain has the fourth largest economy in the world and we still can’t support a British car manufacturer
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Britain has supposedly the fourth largest economy in the world and we still can’t support a British owned volume car manufacturer without begging for foreign investment. It speaks volumes for British financiers and their short-term profits-now mentality.
Phil, Burton on Trent
None of this should have anything to do with overpaid pontificating government ego trippers. They should mind their own business and concentrate on delivering public services at reasonable cost. Administrative overheads of 23% of tax receipts are not acceptable. Scrap the DTI. Clearly, from this episode, it is a complete and utter waste of money.
Anonymous, UK
Very sad indeed. I think the British government could have done more to help Rover. I know that British government policy is very market orientated when it concerns private companies, but this shouldn’t have happened. Look at France and Renault. What sort of European Union is this?
Jeroen Kormelink, Zoetermeer, Netherlands
As a new MG 75 owner, I regret the downfall of what was a great company and I blame greedy management and incompetent politicians who rule us despite very little, if any, business experience. How can lawyer Blair and Nanny Hewitt consider that they have the experience to lead great national business’?
Nick Laffan, Blandford St Mary, UK
What can we do now? We always previously supported local interests, by buying Rover. The whole tragic situation is yet another poor reflection of our attitude to manufacturing and support for national interests.
David Treadwell, Birmingham
Er, why is the government involved anyway? Isn’t Rover a private company? So why is it a political issue? You know the answer!
Nick Grant, Horsham, UK
Like many British companies, and judging by some of the replies here, there is a notion of brand loyalty by country of origin. This isn’t something that has happened in Britain for a long time now since many have accept that we want quality over loyalty.
Darren Burnham, UK
I’d loved to have had a few thousand of help when my employer made me redundant. I imagine that the people working at Dyson would have liked a similar retraining deal when their jobs were taken abroad. Quite a lot of companies collapse and are unable to pay the people’s wages. Why Rover? Why do they deserve special treatment that no-one else gets?
Tim Almond, Swindon, Wilts
I suspect the damage will extend far beyond Rover’s management, employees, dealers, suppliers, and other stakeholders. Surely, the company’s auditors stand accountable to explain why the company continued to trade when its finances were so unstable; maybe this is also a question for the insolvency specialists at PricewaterhouseCoopers who now control the company?
William Bemister, Oxford
I agree with the comments that a large support package shouldn’t be given to Rover, as other companies in the UK which close may receive nothing at all. However; 5,000 workers losing their jobs at once, suppliers and dealerships all around the UK and worldwide hit, the implications of the closing of Rover at a regional level. Such special cases deserve special treatment.
David Ostojitsch, Rowley Regis
Surely greed, the curse of the modern western world, is the ultimate reason why Rover collapsed? With less greed, perhaps the Phoenix Venture group would have aspired to build up a company, which made quality cars this country could be proud of, rather than simply running the company they acquired into the ground. Why can’t this once great company be re-nationalised? Why can’t top jobs be offered to highly qualified businessmen, who are charged with turning a profit, while receiving real performance based bonuses which are purely down to numbers of cars sold? It seems so simple. Why can our government spend hundreds of millions on overseas aid and pay for wars nobody wants, but is unable to re-nationalise a company? Britain would be proud to have a modern and competitive national car industry. If the cars were actually developed to meet modern standards I’d certainly buy one.
Neil Duffield, Gloucester, UK
I used to work for a Rover dealership. What the Directors have done to the finances of the company is criminal. They have sucked the firm dry of capital and assets and now expect the British taxpayer to pick up the pieces. I work for a small company of 14 employees - would the government bail us out if my directors did the same? No. Enough is enough - the people at the top must be held responsible for their actions.
Ritchie Hicks, Colchester
Rover has been in decline for many years. It is a private company which has failed. To use tax payers money to help prop it up or investigate its demise to the tune of many hundreds of millions of pounds is scandalous. It should be treated in the same way as any other private business in administration. There are rules and checks already in place which will bring to the fore any wrong doings by the board of directors and punish them accordingly.
Hilary Tucker, Sutton Coldfield
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Nobody else gets any government handouts when they lose their jobs
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The Rover workers simply have no idea how they have alienated themselves over this. Nobody else gets any government handouts when they lose their jobs; why on earth should they? Why am I going out to work, taking risks, moving house, changing jobs, watching my employer’s performance, making sacrifices, to pay for these? Everyone I know feels disgusted about this.
Patricia, Henley, UK
Another fine mess. Labour has done it again, too little too late, saying what it will improve if we vote them back in. They have had over 8 years to show us what they can do.
Alan Flitcroft, UK
No, I don’t think it should be politically damaging as Rover is a private company. Rover cars are good, there is nothing wrong with them at all, but people like Jeremy Clarkson and the rest of the media helped sell that company down the river by their “smart” remarks. Ian Hislop hit the nail on the head when he intimated that it was people like Clarkson who had helped put the boot in. I think the government should certainly set up an enquiry into the accounting. Phoenix Consortium have a lot to answer for, but much as I dislike this current government I can’t blame them for this - the blame lies squarely with Phoenix and the media in this country who are always quick to put the knife in.
Vicky George, Redditch, UK
When people look back to today, the Rover calamity will be seen as the first sign of the wheels coming off the British economy. The buoyant economy of late has been fuelled by low international interest rates, and cheap consumer goods from the Far East, not from any fundamental strength of the UK economy. We are living beyond our means, with a 40 billion trade deficit annually. Whoever wins the election is going to have to make some unwelcome decisions to bring what we produce in line with what we consume. Rover will then look like the tip of the iceberg.
Dudley Holley, UK
The collapse of the rescue attempt is the symptom not the problem. The problems are: the fatcats who milked the company knowing full well it wouldn’t last; and the political climate which allowed this to happen.
Phil, UK
My thoughts go out to all those who have lost their jobs, but there are some very serious questions to be asked and quickly. Where has all the money gone? How much have the directors awarded themselves and why have they been rewarded when the company has failed?
Julian Hale, Stockton on Tees
The government could have helped, but they were more interested in sticking to the EU rules. When will our people come first Mr Blair?
Alfie Noakes, UK
For too long they have been making too few, poor quality cars, inefficiently. It’s not rocket science. My girlfriend was made redundant 2 years ago and we have suffered a reduction in income of 4k pa. Did the government help us? Of course not, we have simply had to get on with it. Everyone bleating about government help should consider that they are only receiving this help due to cynical vote generation by Blair and Brown.
Dave Smith, Shropshire
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Regardless of size, a company manufacturing a product that doesn’t sell should not be supported
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Would a private company have allowed the government to step in earlier? Would the government not then be accused of being a nanny state? Private companies are just that. Regardless of size, a company manufacturing a product that doesn’t sell should not be supported. Rover has been in trouble for years and surely the workers knew that.
HF, UK
Tory cries for an independent enquiry are a joke! They want to spend more public money doing a post mortem on a private corpse. They’ll have plenty of time on their hands to do it themselves.
Ian, London, UK
All this talk of the government getting involved sooner and being able to save Rover is very wrong. The Chinese were denied access to the books just like the Government and the directors of Rover painted a much better deal to the Chinese then what is known now. I believe the government did all it could. Rover failed because the British people did not buy enough Rover cars. It’s that simple. Trying to score political points is sickening to watch. People should focus on the workers who are being made redundant and the efforts to save what works and concentrating on creating new jobs. The Lib Dems are a disgrace: in 2000 they backed the deal that supported the Phoenix team, how petty is it now for them to pretend otherwise and as for the Tories, they’re being opportunistic yet again.
Gary Hills, Willenhall
I think what has happened is disgusting. The decline in Birmingham’s once powerful industry sector is totally down to the Labour government who refuse to invest in technology. How are Rover and Jaguar meant to compete when we are producing horse carts for twice the price of automobiles you can buy abroad? We need to invest in the future.
Ad, London
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Posted on October 14, 2007
Filed Under Dating advices, Dating experts | Leave a Comment
Iraq faces the distinct possibility of collapse and fragmentation, UK foreign policy think tank Chatham House says.
Its report says the Iraqi government is now largely powerless and irrelevant in many parts of the country.
It warns there is not one war but many local civil wars, and urges a major change in US and British strategy, such as consulting Iraq’s neighbours more.
The report comes as Iran said Iranian and US diplomats would hold talks on 28 May on the security situation in Iraq.
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the talks - the third such meeting - would be restricted to the subject of Iraq.
“Negotiation is limited to Iraq, in Iraq, and will start in the presence of Iraqi officials,” he told reporters during a visit to Pakistan.
The situation in Iraq will form part of discussions between UK Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W Bush in Washington on Thursday.
It is Mr Blair’s last official visit to the White House before he steps down as prime minister on 27 June.
‘Harsh realities’
The UK Foreign Office, responding to the Chatham House report, stated that security conditions, although “grim” in places, varied across Iraq.
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CHATHAM HOUSE
Established in 1920
Formerly known as the Royal Institute of International Affairs
Takes its name from building in which it is housed
Regarded as one of world’s leading think tanks on international affairs
Famous for Chatham House Rule, on free speech and confidentiality at meetings
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“Most insurgent attacks remain concentrated in just four of Iraq’s 18 provinces, containing less than 42% of the population,” a Foreign Office spokesman told the Press Association news agency.
“Iraq has come a long way in a short time,” he added, saying the international community “must stand alongside the Iraqi government”.
Maj Gen William Caldwell, spokesman for the multinational force in Iraq, told the BBC the US troops surge in Baghdad was showing progress.
“We are seeing positive indicators that within Baghdad levels of violence are coming down,” he said.
“That’s what we want it to do, so that it will set the conditions to allow for the economic and political process to take place.”
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There is not ‘a’ civil war in Iraq, but many civil wars and insurgencies involving a number of communities and organisations struggling for power
Chatham House report on Iraq
Report paints grim picture
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The Chatham House report, written by Gareth Stansfield, a Middle East expert, is unremittingly bleak, says BBC diplomatic correspondent James Robbins.
Mr Stansfield argues that the break-up of Iraq is becoming increasingly likely.
In large parts of the country, the Iraqi government is powerless, he says, as rival factions struggle for local supremacy.
The briefing paper, entitled Accepting Realities in Iraq, says: “There is not ‘a’ civil war in Iraq, but many civil wars and insurgencies involving a number of communities and organisations struggling for power.”
Mr Stansfield says that although al-Qaeda is challenged in some areas by local leaders who do not welcome such intervention, there is a clear momentum behind its activity.
Iraq’s neighbours also have a greater capacity to affect the situation on the ground than either the UK or the US, the report adds.
US-Iran talks
On Thursday, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said that US-Iranian discussions at ambassador level would take place in Iraq on 28 May.
American and Iranian officials have held talks at ambassador level in the past. There were discussions in Baghdad in March and brief exchanges at a summit in Egypt earlier this month.
Given the climate of suspicion and hostility which has existed between Iran and the US, it is doubtful that the talks stand any chance of yielding quick or substantial results, our correspondent says.
Washington accuses Iran of arming Shia militants in Iraq.
Tehran says American and other coalition forces should be withdrawn from Iraq.
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